As you may have noticed, I don’t overtly pimp my own listings on this blog. This one, however, is worth a mention. This 5494 square foot, five-bedroom, custom home, located in an enclave of executive homes off Callahan Ranch Road adjacent to Montreux, is priced to sell at $182 per square foot, the absolute lowest price per square foot you’ll find for a home this size in Area 171 (up the Mount Rose Highway corridor all the way to St James).
The home enjoys unobstructed, sunny, Mount Rose views across the entire back of the house. Built in the mid-nineties, it features a traditional floor plan, great flow, large rooms, and a two-bedroom, attached, in-law apartment with separate entrance on the main floor, all on one acre with plenty of RV parking. The home has been freshly painted throughout and is offered for $1,000,000. Please call me for more info or a personal showing: 775 813 6752. pictures
67 comments
With all due respect Diane, you shouldn’t pimp your own listings; at least not on this blog. Why did you?
Is this supposed to represent some “steal” at $1M simply because you’ve computed a price/square foot at under $200? Does the home exude some special architectural curb appeal? Is it constructed on some special oversized lot with panoramic views? Does it represent new or upscale construction? Is your seller offering below market seller assisted financing [preferably 110%]?
Since you have opened the door Diane, I think this represents a good example of the discussion Guy began several weeks ago about refusing to accept listings where the seller demands an unrealistic sales price. Isn’t this home located in the zip code Guy highlighted that evidenced a $586K median sales price last month? Do you contend this property is worth twice the median?
Your seller has one week until the sales season is effectively over until next spring [if not beyond]. Because it’s not going to sell at anywhere near $1M, in the coming weeks I fully expect to see this property offered for rent on craigslist at $1,750/month. Hope you can earn the rental commission!
Purchased in March of 2004 for $755K, three short years later it is supposed to be worth a million?
Smarten…. lay off! I believe this is Diane’s blog offered to you as a free service. That gives her the right to post whatever she wishes and express whatever opinion she has at the moment.
Further, your comparison between this house and the median (without analyzing any further information) is akin to comparing apples to pine cones.
The apocalyptic view of real estate that many posters express on this blog is typical cattle mentality driven by whatever sell newpapers and advertising in the media. People have to live somewhere and (just like the housing boom) the housing bust will not last forever!
Good point Grand Wazoo. Many houses around town are back to 2004 prices (and some cases earlier) and Diane feels this house is worth 32% more than the 2004 price? Seems far stretched. Perhaps Diane can take a moment and explain why this house is worth 32% more than 2004 while other houses are not.
RGK wrote: “That gives [Diane] the right to post whatever she wishes and express whatever opinion she has at the moment.”
It works in both directions RGK; I have the right to post whatever I wish to express.
Further, Diane’s a big girl. She doesn’t need you nor anyone else to “come to her rescue” especially given the fact my comments were made in a respectful [remember, I prefaced them “with all due respect”] rather than derogatory manner.
And what is it exactly a poster such as myself is supposed to be getting as a “free service” out of this blog other than the forum to express/share his/her Reno real estate views [which hopefully contribute to the overall body of work Diane is attempting to create]? If Diane were to start posting the REAL Reno real estate deals of the day [not just her deals], I might not be so critical. But that’s not what is happening.
Finally, you take issue with my comparison of listing prices to median priced sales for this zip code, yet you do not with Diane’s similar comparison to price per square foot “(without analyzing any further information. Isn’t this) akin to comparing apples to pine cones?” That was my point.
Although people may have to live somewhere and the housing bust may not last forever, they don’t have to overpay $1M for something they can rent for $1,750/month with the short term prospect of devaluation. Although you may choose to call this “cattle mentality,” I label it differently.
Lighten up RGK!
Smarten,
prefacing a derogatory statement with ‘With all due respect’ doesn’t diminish the disrespectful tone followed by your lecture regarding her ‘Deal of the Day’ (not to mention your lecture to Jeff the mortgage guy who was invited to post).
The free service she is providing to you is listed in your URL bar - http://dianecohn.blogs.com…. doesn’t say smarten.com. Someone had to pay for this website and if you are not writing the check then you are receiving a free service.
Don’t forget that this blog, although very informative and valuable, is a means of advertising…. a tool to attract clients.
Just dig deep and try to show some respect.
Wow, harsh words on both sides. Points made on both sides. My two cents is that Diane has provided a means for dialog. Hopefully we can interact, share ideas, express our own views, and maybe learn some things along the way.
Yes, the blog is ultimately “a means of advertising…. a tool to attract clients.”
But let’s not get carried away. We’re all adults here
I live in the Bay Area and have been lurking for just the right time/location/price to buy and relocate in Reno. I value all your input.
At first blush I have to say that I am with Grand Wazoo, Smarten and Smart Money. What justifies a 32% increase in value since 5/04? Guy has repeatedly said he thinks sellers need to price 1%-1.5% below most recent sales. Perhaps Diane, you can share your pricing rationale and refer us to the most recent comparable sales that you rely on.
Or maybe this property just has one of those kool-aid wells on it like the $800,000 barn and the $4 million Caughlin House adjacent to one of the busiest intersections in the SW.
Which is it? Demonstrable comps, or a kool-aid well?
Hey everyone - maybe this joint is a smoking deal. According to Zillow, it was previously listed for $1,150,000. Now its only a million!
Yes even bagboys at Raleys know the market died in the middle of 2005. So even if we agree that the Voodoo money of 2004 and early 2005 caused the market to continue to rise from 5/04 to 7/05, are you saying this house appreciated in value 32% in 14 months?? And I guess we are all just supposed to pretend that the second half of 2005, and all of 2006, and all of 2007, just didn’t happen. How’s that for a pricing strategy?
How about spending some time proofreading your internet cafe website? Not knowing how to spell certain words definitely doesn’t instill confidence in your product.
Listing price is easy - $775,000 x 1.30 = $1,000,000 and change. Things really WERE appreciating at that rate in 2004 and early 2005. No owners believe they have lost value, even though all Guy’s data shows at least a 15% drop since the peak. So maybe listing this one at about $850,000?
And they better get realistic about selling fast. About 100 homes a week are closing in Reno / Sparks. Notices of Default are now running about 50 a week, with about half of these resulting in Trustee’s Deeds. That’s 1 new REO coming to the market for every 4 houses that are moving. And the REO’s are starting to list 15-20% under the peak prices, based on all the 80/20 loans that are failing.
Great post! I am gonna share it with my own blog readers at jason.landbrokr.com ! Thanks.
Diane- you go ahead and pimp your listings, if the market improves you can list mine and pimp it big time =)
hi diane!
the more exposure you provide for your clients listing the better.
blog on baby!
- rudy.sellsius°
WOW THATS ALOT OF SQ/FT! As far as the price is concerned 1m is only a starting point for negotiations. We all know that dont we?
Personally I think It a fabulous house and the price isnt too far off.
If I was looking to buy it I would throw 900k out there with closing cost paid. just my 2cents
What do you think about an offer of 900k diane?
derrick what is the comparable sales data upon which you base your offer? How do you know what the market bears in that neighborhood?
Or is your approach to just take whatever the seller asks and reduce it by 10%?
If the seller was aking $1,500,000, would you just offer $1,350,000 with no info on neighborhood comps?
Just curious.
I personally think the exterior of the house looks more like a condo than a custom home, with that siding and all. And tile counter tops, with the crazy back splash pattern?! Granted, I place a high value on views, and this one apparently has great views…but the house…hmmm. To each his/her own I suppose.
Smarten, in case you didn’t notice, it is Diane’s blog, she can post whatever she wants. If you don’t like it, perhaps you should start you own blog or quit reading this one. I would guess Diane didn’t start this blog to have herself, and current or potential clients hear how overpriced her listings are. I would venture to guess that this blog might actually be hurting her business, not helping it, yet she continues to let everyone voice their mostly negative opinion. I actually interviewed Diane to list one of my houses for sale due to this blog and her honesty. I’m glad now that I didn’t list with her because of this blog. What if she had someone interested in one of her listings and they read her blog and all the negative comments about that listing? It may be enough to change thier mind. As a real estate maketing tool, if that was her original intention, this blog is a negative, so cut her some slack.
Allen really wishes it was still 2004. Voodoo lenders handing out no doc liar loans to bartenders so they could go out and pay whatever the hell anybody asked for a house, because, as we all know, real estate never goes down in Reno. Fools all over the place willing to pay whatever the hell anybody asked for a house because, as we all know, you can’t ever lose money on a house in Reno. Ah yes, it was the New paradigm, where prices would rise forever into the sunset. It didn’t matter what you paid for a house because there would always be somebody, fully equiped with his 2/28, stated, nothing down, I/O, wiling to come along and pay more. Why not, hell it wasn’t his money, you know.
It’s really a bitch now, today, having to actually justify an asking price to informed buyers. It’s a major pain in the ass when potential buyers ask about comps. Oh God, pleaaseee bring back 2004!
Allen, I totally agree with you regarding this being Diane’s blog. Although RE agents play both sides of the transaction… she may be putting listings at risk with the gain of possibly contracting buyers. They all want buyers anyway - don’t have to actually sell anyting!
It must be nice to have the market cornered on intelligence and cynicism (Lindie, BanteringBear, RenoIgnoramus, Smarten). As Lindie points out, there are ‘Fools all over the place’.
Wow… these guys are angry and after reviewing Lindie’s last post, it makes me wonder if they were the recepients of liar/voodoo loans. Looking at ALL of their arrogant posts, I have to ask….how long have you been a bartender???
Lindie, Lindie, Lindie….nowhere in my post did I say anything about the true value of Diane’s deal, nor did I say the market wasn’t in decline. FYI, I sold 2 properties last year for a great profit, and my 2 remaining I bought in ‘96 and have almost tripled in value since then, my 3rd property is $1m+, which I built and live in. It is very likely that I won’t make any money on it if I sell it soon, but in this market I would be happy to break even which is more than many can say. I definitely am not complaining. I have not purchased any property from 2004 to present in Reno since I knew this double digit appreciation wasn’t real. I’m not going to tell you where I am purchasing until I get ready to sell, not that you would act on it anyhow. I have asked all the hostile voices here to state their backgrounds so we can understand where you are coming from, but none replied. I am a building contractor who owns rental properties who lived a successful mortgage consultant for the past 10 years. Real estate is my business, I make a living at it. I usually don’t comment, only when someone says something ridiculous such as “Allen wishes is was 2004″ or “Diane, you shouldn’t pimp your own listings” So what’s your gig Lindie……checker at Raleys???? Why should we value your opinion?
Allen, Allen, Allen
You state you “usually don’t comment, only when someone says something ridiculous such as…Diane, you shouldn’t pimp your own listings.”
You characterize this statement as something “ridiculous” when Diane calls it “the deal of the day;” her pictures demonstrate something with very little curb appeal [at least to me] in the middle of Barren Hills [our name says it all]; and I [and others] ask Diane what represents such a “deal” other than the fact she has priced excess square footage at under $200/square foot?
Now you being a $1M property owner in Reno and a real estate professional [”I am a building contractor who owns rental properties who lived a successful mortgage consultant for the past 10 years. Real estate is my business, I make a living at it”], I would expect you know more than others exactly what’s available in the marketplace for $1M and what kind of value Diane’s “deal” represents. I need only point you up the hill to Montreux and St. James Place for comparables.
So in your professional opinion, is Diane’s “deal of the day” really a deal [”nowhere in my post did I say anything about the true value of Diane’s deal”]? Other than square footage for square footage’s sake, what’s so special about this property? Weren’t we talking about a drop in prices/square foot to $126 about a month ago in Somersett? And if so, how does $171 compare?
I’ll tell you right now that if you’re living in Montreux or St. James Place; you’ve upgraded your home using the contracting skills you possess; and you’re willing to sell your home simply to “break even” [which should mean your out-of-pocket cost which should be appreciably less than FMV some years ago (because you built it yourself and you have not purchased any property from 2004 to present in Reno)]; I for one [assuming Lindie is not] may be interested. And I’ll bet Dave in Los Gatos may be interested as well!
And I would LOVE to have Diane [and/or Guy] post Reno’s “Deals of the Day” everyday, even if their listings made it into the category. I bet there are a whole lot of us out here who’d love to snag a real deal. The problem here is that from what I have seen, this “deal” is really no deal at all [other than possibly to Derrick if he can snag it for $900K] which then translates into “pimping one’s own listings.”
Fair enough Smarten. I don’t have enough info to comment on whether or not Diane’s listing is a deal or not. My point was that if a Realtor doesn’t “pimp their own listings” they aren’t doing their job and this is Diane’s blog. You are saying that you do have enough info, to make that judgement, so I will take your word for it.
You are correct about my listing in that it is for sale for what is would cost a contractor to build, without profit. Contact Diane if you are interested, she knows where it is. Asking price is $1.2m, I just reduced it $100k. However, if my house was such a good deal, it would already be sold, which goes to show you where the market is. I might just wait it out as I do need a place to live.
Awwwwwwwwwwww, come on Allen, we all really know that you dearly wish it was still 2004. Still 2004 so some cab driver with a stated income, neg am, nothing down, I/O liar loan could come along and buy your house for 110% of your asking price. You know, in your heart, that’s the only way your house got to be worth what you think it’s worth anyway. It’s ok to be sad that it’s not 2004 anymore. Surely somebody in the mortgage business can be sad these days as he “waits it out”.
I’m going to agree with you, Allen Murray, that it’s Diane’s blog, and she can pimp her overpriced listings if she wants to. But that’s about the only thing we’ll ever agree upon. You read like just another angry speculator caught up in a sea of declining prices. Of course, you only “profit” in your real estate deals, right? What a bunch of horse****. It’s always easy to spot the financial failures as they’re always bragging the loudest about their supposed successes. Ring a bell Derrick?
RGJ posted:
“The apocalyptic view of real estate that many posters express on this blog is typical cattle mentality driven by whatever sell newpapers and advertising in the media. People have to live somewhere and (just like the housing boom) the housing bust will not last forever!”
Sorry RGJ, but we bubble bloggers who have been posting about a housing bubble for more than 3 years are not part of your herd mentality. That’s more than just a little insulting. We’re mostly free thinkers who don’t pay much, if any, attention to the MSM of which (I would guess), you are a part. Besides, it is only recently that they (you) have picked up on the reality that is the housing apocalypse. This makes it impossible for them (you) to have been an accurate or reliable information source over the course of the last several years.
Lastly, I don’t remember anybody ever posting that the housing bust will last forever. Care to share where you came up with that?
Allen, don’t know how you got elected as today’s whipping boy (and no clue where Lindie’s 2004 comments are coming from - am I missing something?). Selling a multitenant rental unit you held for 10 years makes you an evil speculator? Living in one house while you build your dream spread, then selling it is somehow perverse? You did well on both, and I salute you.
You seen pretty realistic about your own current listing. $248 PSF for the level of quality doesn’t seem out touch, though you might have out built the neighborhood. Hate your loan package on the property, but you seem to know what you are doing. Would it matter if it was 1.0 mil instead of 1.2? Probably not. Someone will love it or they won’t.
And on pimping - Diane (and Guy) are very descreet posting informatation on their listings and transactions. I know D had clearance to post information on Pepperwood in its day, and suspect that these sellers have bought off on this post. And when I list with Diane (someday, I promise!), I will DEMAND it gets pimped on the blog.
Yes, enough about Allen.
Ahhh yes Pepperwood. That was Diane’s listing that sold for a $500,000 loss, right?
In the spirit of getting a Diane post to beat Guy’s 40 reply record, I’ll respond, Lindie.
No doubt that Pepperwood bought studiply high originally. Not Diane’s gig. And if you did a bit or research, you would know that the sales price data is not what it seems. More of a restructuring which Diane shepherded through a TON of obsticals. It is a success story on Diane’s end of the deal as an agent.
So Lindie, what are you looking for? What would you buy?
Hi Allen,
I must have missed your post about getting everyone’s background. When I first started reading this blog a while back I thought it was going to be a place to discuss housing and the profitability of rentals. I read for a while and realized it was slanted more towards the housing bubble etc. and those that helped to create it. I don’t believe this was the intent of the originator but these things seem to take on a life of their own. In spite of this I still have found it to be a very interesting read.
My wife and I have four houses, three of which are rentals. We bought them with the sole intention of holding them long term. I will be honest that the majority of the money to acquire them came from the appreciation through 2004. Like you, we stopped buying in ’04 because the numbers no longer made sense. We could no longer put twenty percent down and break even so we quit. We were rather cautious however as all four homes have 30 year fixed rates with no seconds.
Owning rental homes has been a mixed bag. The tax benefits are great but the tenants some times are not. We don’t intend to sell for another twelve years so we’re in it for the long haul. We may 1031 one of them as it’s getting a bit old and has a low depreciation basis. If we’re viewed as part of the bubble problem, so be it. I’m not a cab driver or a bartender but an IT guy. Most of what I know (admittedly isn’t a lot) came from a free real estate course that was put on in town back in 2000 by a local realtor that some may know as Maggie. She lined up professionals that came and spoke to the group about various topics that ranged from accounting, property management, legal protection through LLC’s to using 1031’s.
Let’s get Diane her 41!
The only way Diane gets to 41 on this thread is if somebody says something outrageous at this point. And that, as you know, never happens here. Nobody tries to fan the embers on this blog.
Green, your are right on and obviously know how to do your homework. As a side note of pricing my house, I have personally inspected all the similar listings in my area, and even a recent sold in the $1.2-.3 range and have priced my house as the best value out there. I think Mr. Pennington has me beat in terms of overbuilding for the neighborhood, but you are correct. Will it sell even at $1.2M…I’m not hopeful. As for the way I have it financed, let me just say a broken engagement (to the mortgage lender)put me in a tight spot. For you out there that have no idea what you are talking about like Lindie and BB, look up the sales history of 1450 Rainna and 411 E 7th street, 2 of my 2005 sales. Also Green, notice that my 2 remaining multifamily props are 2 blocks from the University and very buildable. Pretty safe bet, especially considering my purchase price in ‘96.
Perry, I’m with you. I know Maggie and have worked with several people at Remcor. I originally started reading this as an investor also, and don’t comment often because all it has become is a bubble blog. People with a lot of time to pull comps and tell us that the bubble has burst, but have you noticed that nobody voices their ideas on how to make money in real estate here or elsewhere. I know how, but I’m not into teaching others how to make money. I too quit buying here in 04 because multi wasn’t penciling out and SFR didn’t make sense. Here’s my take on that…..during this massive appreciation period the rental market was in decline. All the good tenants were buying houses due to easier money, we were stuck with lower quality renters and vacancies went up. I have a friend who has been in the rental business in Reno since the ’60’s and he agrees, that period was one of the worst rental markets he has seen. Now that the market has busted, rentals are coming back, not the single family, but multi. Rents are going up, vacancies are going down. What is hurting the rental market is the glut of condos that they can’t sell as SFR’s. When I first started buying here in ‘96, 10-11% cap rates were common, now we’re at 5-6%.
I also anticipated this bust, hence not buying/building anything during the frenzy. My dad has been a contractor since the mid 70’s and has seen this happen before, although this boom/bust was bigger. Also, my private lender/friend came from the Bay Area, and was recognizing it also and was pretty tight with his money while the banks were giving it away. So you can see when someone says I wish it was 2004 or makes a snide comment about how I always profit on real estate it gets me fired up, they obviously have no idea. Bantering, just so you know, I so far have never “lost” money in real estate. My $1.2m home may be the first time, but I’m not complaining. I smile when I recall the spec house I sold in ‘03. I got a full price offer at sheetrock on the first day it was listed. I rejected the offer (it was contingent on financing) and jacked the price up $30K since I suspected I priced it too low. I did get my price a month later. Do I wish is was still like that? If I did, I would have kept building specs in 04 and 05, which I didn’t. Perhaps we pros need to start our own blog and let the peanut gallery have this one?????
RE: “I might just wait it out as I do need a place to live.” (Allen Murphy)
If you’re going to sit tight, you’d best find a comfortable chair. The last downturn took 8 years to pass and this one is bigger. MUCH bigger. And just beginning.
Allen Murray posted:
Poor Allen. He’s, yet again, mistaking blind luck for skill. I am always amazed by how many johnny come latelys this mania produced. Perhaps when he eats about $500k off his latest spec home, he’ll sober up. Big hat, no cattle.
Johnny Come Lately apparently bought a decade ago on most of his properties. Positive cash flow rental properties aren’t blind luck, but good investment strategies.
And what spec house? Allen seeems to live there and just wants to get out of his investment. BB, I find you intersting and on target most of the time, but you are so off base on this one.
BB, I usually think you make somewhat educated statements, but you are way off base. How can you call someone that has been buying properties for the past 12 years as the sole source of income, who hasn’t bought anything in Reno since 2004, who knows the ins and outs of the mortgage and real estate business a “Johnny come lately”? All I can say is you stick with your strategy and I’ll stick with mine. At least I have one that I am willing to voice instead of bantering about that which I do not know. 12 years in real estate isn’t a long time, but considering I am now 37, its most of my professional life. I would have started sooner, but I was finishing my degree in business at our local university. Not to mention that I have been in this area my entire life. Instead of your piss ant comments, tell us something we don’t already know. Whats your deal???
Allen, he has no deal. He (as well as Lindie and Smarten and some of the others) think that anyone who has ever sold a property is a flipper and anyone who currently ownes is an idiot.
I agree that BB typically has an eloquent way of stating his ridiculously
narrow minded and repetitive jargon.
It’s ok Allen, BAntering bear thinks I am a financial failure as well! I know it must be hard for him to grasp the fact that I made over 1/2 million dollars (after taxes) flipping homes from 2002-2006.
500,000+ divided by 5 years =100k/year! Bantering bear you seem like a smart guy, so how much did you make these last 5 years?
I’m 28 years old and almost retired.
Jealousy is a funny thing isnt it folks.
Ok, here’s my list of the 5 greatest bands of all time:
1. The Beatles
2. The Rolling Stones
3. Pink Floyd
4. Led Zeppelin
5. U2
So what do you all think?
Oh wait. Wrong blog. Well, at least Diane got to No. 41……………
I think this blog would be more interesting to most if we talked about other aspects besides the fact that the bubble has burst. I think everyone here agrees with that fact, but there are several posters here that have a hard time accepting the fact that many of us have been and will continue to gain wealth through smart real estate investments. I have been at it 12 years and could retire now at a very decent standard of living based on my wise investments. I won’t go into all the details of how I did it, although I think many would find it interesting while others would call it luck. I personally don’t believe in luck. Successful people create their own luck by being prepared to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. Isn’t it amusing how most people that believe in luck never seem to get lucky? Bantering Bear, did you drink too much Absinthe at Burning Man?
LOL, you guys kill me. Thanks for helping me beat Guy.
Ok, Allen. Fair enough. Why don’t you cast your pearls before us swine and tell us how we all can “gain wealth through smart real estate investments” in this market. I am willing to listen. But, let me say in advance, that if you respond back with something like well, we are all just too stupid to get it, or it’s your secret and your’e not going to share it with us, then I call BS. Ok? Fair enough? After all, you say you think many here would find your knowledge interesting.
So, Allen, please, enlighten us.
Lindie, thanks for asking. Obviously, I can’t explain a 12 year career in detail, but I’ll give you the gist. You don’t know how tempted I was to blow you off. I don’t gain anything by educating the ignorant, except create competition, and since we are in completely different leagues, I don’t consider you competition, so here you go: Graduated from college in ‘94, built first spec house with my entire $2000 savings put down on a lot, convinced owner to carry difference, borrowed private construction money (I couldn’t qualify for a loan). Literally built the entire house myself. Market was poor at the time, moved into house, eventually sold and made $30K profit. Figured out I was never going to gain wealth this way. Decided to get into rentals. I’m from Gardnerville, and because of zoning, and land costs, multifamily didn’t make sense. I looked at Carson City, but ended up in Reno. I was looking for an existing house with room and zoning to build additional units, preferably within walking distance since I understood the parking problems. Let me add, that none of the 8 or so properties I have ever purchased here were listed by a realtor. If realtor is doing their job, it will be priced at market value, I never pay market value. Put $25K of my proceeds down on a the house by the University, I paid $103K for the house. I then borrowed another $100k (private)and single handedly built a 3 bdm, 3 bath duplex on the back of the property that rented for $1000/side. I drew the building myself, roommates like their own baths, right? Payment on entire property was $1500mo, gross income $2000, I lived in the house for free. Retired at age 26? No, my standard of living wasn’t where I wanted it to be. Keep in mind this whole time I’m driving a ‘69 Chevy pickup while all my friends were driving brand new ones. That’s how I started. I don’t want to get too long winded, so I’ll say I also ended up buying the 2 adjacent properties, built several spec houses that I moved into and lived in them for at least 2 years and sold tax free, you know that tax rule, right? Throw in a couple pure specs and remodels, and contracts. Started selling during the frenzy and quit buying since I knew what was going to happen. I could probably write a book about it, but the happy ending is that I have become wealthy off real estate in Reno. Much more to my story, maybe some other time. All the successful business principles apply, such as living below your means, knowing the market and a “value” when you see it, have the ability to act fast, and the ability to stomach risk. Its not easy, most people can’t do it.
There are still opportunities here and elsewhere, but I’ll keep that to myself. Any questions Lindie, Bantering Bear???? Maybe you should be more careful who you call out before you understand who you are dealing with, no offence.
Gee, Allen, thanks for the non-response. My question was (please go back and read it): how do we, in your words, “gain wealth through smart real estate investments’ in THIS market? THIS market.
Your non-response is: “There are still opportunities here and elsewhere, but I’ll keep that to myself.” So, your non-answer is, in effect, as I predicted, that’s your secret and your’e not going to share it.
So, rather than offer anything meaningful regarding strategies in this market, your response is essentially that we all just need to acknowledge you for the genius that you are without your offering anything other than some alleged success in the past.
You know what Allen, your non- response is nothing more than self-congratulatory BS. With not a little bit of arrogance thrown in.
You know what else , Allen? I know how to conduct cold fusion, “but I’ll just keep that to myself.”
Allen, Lindie offered you the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. And you choked. On your own BullSh!t.
Couldn’t you have just thrown a bone to all us idiots here?
Your credibility on this blog just got blown out the door.
Lindie, the difference is that I’m not busting your balls about cold fusion. Like I said, I don’t gain by teaching you anything, and there are some other very smart people who also read this that I am sure know how to do it. I’ll give you some ideas that I touched on in my response. Don’t look in the MlS for deals, there aren’t’ any. I look for property that I can add value to, I’m a contractor, you are not. I’ve never bought a property based on expected appreciation, you shouldn’t either. Look outside Reno, there are areas with great potential. I’ve looked at 2 properties here in the last few weeks that I would feel safe buying now, deals are starting to come out of the woodworks. My best piece of advice for you is it to stick with cold fusion, stay of real estate and maybe go have a beer with Bantering Bear. Cheers! I’m off to the Playa, so don’t take my lack of response as arrogance, although I do appreciate the compliment=)
Skrap Guy, are you related to Lindie? What do you want me to do, teach all of the idiots how to be successful real estate investors? That’s not going to happen. If you honestly think I choked on my own BS, I’ll keep my BS to myself. I’m trying to up the discourse on this blog, but unfortunately, the know nothings seem to have more spare time on your hands.
Ok, here’s my list of the 5 greatest rock songs of all time:
1. Stairway to Heaven (Zeppelin)
2. Johnny B. Goode (Chuck Berry)
3. Like a Rolling Stone (Dylan)
4. Satisfaction (Stones)
5. Imagine (John Lennon) (tie)
Respect (Aretha)
Maybe we can salvage this thread by turning it into something productive and get Diane to 50 at the same time if somebody would like to post the 5 greatest albums of all time?
My current and latest theory is Allen Murray is derrick with a spell checker.
gosh some of you guys are combative…I don’t find the cat fights particularly entertaining and its sure not why I read this blog.
I’m not a real estate guru, or an investor. I’m just a homeowner who came to this blog after my husband saw it and said “when we sell our house we need to list it with Diane because she’s very web saavy and seems to really know what she’s doing”
When I posted here that I wanted to make some improvements to my home (all DIY stuff) but that I wanted to make sure it would appeal to potential buyers, Diane was nice enough to come to my house and evaulate my remodel ideas. She didn’t give me a pitch about listing the house, she just gave her honest opinion of what would and would not appeal to a buyer, I really appreciated her taking the time to do that.
As far as her ‘promoting’ her listings - well, I read alot of forums, one of them is gardenweb.com and everytime I go to that site I have to deal with horrible full page ads that pop-up blockers don’t block, but hey- the forums are good and I don’t expect anyone to provide content just for my entertainment.
Take a look around folks, where else in Reno is there a realtor who is willing to let us participate in an unmoderated discussion, much of which is nothing more than people taking cheap shots at realtors and lenders?
“…Allen Murray is derrick with a spell checker.”
Priceless Grand Wazoo! You are becomg the KING of the one-liners on the blog.
Lindie you have become the trailor trash of the blog..
sorry I couldn’t help myself, Its just you seem so budget!
Allen Murray wrote: “I think this blog would be more interesting to most if we talked about other aspects besides the fact that the bubble has burst.”
Although I’m not so sure it would be more interesting, it might be more productive. And to this extent, I agree with him.
But please Allen; will you stop with the one man self congratulatories? Please don’t tell us how savvy you are and how the rest of us are in an inferior league because you have no clue. Remember, those who can do and those who can’t, talk about it (are you listening Derrick?).
O.K., so let’s go to the topic I thought you wanted to explore: how can we, as a real estate investors, make money in THIS Reno real estate market?
I submit we’re not going to make it buying a piece of land and acting as a developer because: the cost of land is too expensive; and by the time we end up paying for the build out, we will have lost money - the very predicament you’ve admitted you’re currently facing. Since there are a whole lot of very, very intelligent real estate developers out there who are losing their shirts in Reno, what makes you think you’re smarter [your 12 years of experience]?
And for the same reasons, we’re not going to make it buying some little two bedroom 1 bath home on a large lot in a good neighborhood and turning it into Diane’s “deal of the day.”
We’re also not going to make it [at least in the short run] counting on market appreciation because we seem to pretty much agree there’s not going to be any [at least in the short run]. Even if you can find “good buys” that haven’t made it onto the MLS, the carrying costs to wait out the market combined with high costs of sale guaranty you won’t make a killing.
We’re also not going to make it being a landlord because Reno’s a terrible place to be a residential real estate landlord unless you’re looking for big negative cash flow to offset other earned income [and having been a Bay Area landlord for longer than you’ve been an adult, I think I know a little bit about what I’m talking about].
So I submit for the group’s collective consideration, two ideas.
The first is to invest in junior deeds of trust. We only invest in those mortgages whose security we would be comfortable owning ourselves, and we only invest where the cushion of equity is at least 40% or more [because you simply can’t trust any appraisal]. There are a lot of homeowners in need of mortgage assistance and many more on the horizon as adjustable rates reset. As the traditional mortgage market dries up, a void is being created for investors like us.
And the beauty is that we’re banking on the loan going sour. So if we foreclose, we end up owning a property we want to own at a fraction of fmv. And we don’t have to finance our purchase; we get to take title “subject to” senior liens even if non-assumable.
And should someone outbid us at the foreclosure sale, then we end up getting a nice above 10% return on our investment.
My second idea is really an extension of the first. We’ve discussed before on this blog short sales and sold out junior lienholders.
If I hold a second or third mortgage against a property; the holder of a senior mortgage[s] forecloses; and my security gets wiped out; the mortgagors’ obligation to me isn’t wiped out by the foreclosure; only the security is wiped out. That means I can recover my debt through a civil action.
As has been reported on this blog, many institutional lenders aren’t too smart when it comes to making junior loans against properties with no equity. So we look for these lenders [preferably when senior lienholders have already started foreclosure] with the expectation their security is going to be wiped out. These lenders would rather get something versus nothing since they’re not interested in debt collection.
Since we’re taking over the junior lienholder’s position, of course he/she/it is going to share the borrower[s’] loan applications, verification of income, assets, etc. Thus we only pull the trigger if the borrower[s] has other assets [like Guy’s client who put money down on another home and had to short sell his/her/their Reno property] we can rely upon to satisfy our note.
So I say you guys find the opportunities, do your due diligence and people like me will put up the cash.
Now it’s your turn Allen.
Smarten, I was hoping you were going to post your top 5 albums, but your post is a major improvement for this thread.
There was a man named Sidney Stern here in Reno back in the 80s who made quite a fortune doing what you are talking about. The practice of being a hard money lender making loans to people you hope will default has been around a long time and can be quite lucrative. Back in the 80s Nevada still had a usury law and so Mr. Stern had to get that changed. Once he was able to loan money on junior liens at 3-4% over prevailing rates, he made a killing. His business became known as Nevada First Thrift and was eventually bought out by a major bank.
The only challenge is to find properties where there is a 40% equity cushion in this market. People who are in trouble don’t have any equity cushion, let alone 40%. Most people who have a 40% cushion, aern’t really in that much trouble that they will deal with a hard money lender.
I wouldn’t say you are so much talking about “real estate investing” as you are talking about being a moneylender. But clearly your thinking is sound. Just finding the customers is the trick.
Great dialogue here. And I think everyone is respectful.
To the post– house pimping on a blog or street corner is fine by me, especially if I’m the seller and Diane is the pimp. Besides, you gotta go see the house to see if it is a deal or not. And what is a deal?— I think below the current market can be fairly called a deal. She didn’t say it was a steal. And even if it is a deal– you may see it and would rather puke than live there. Or you may love it and gladly pay (or even overpay if you had to). Heck, I’ve overpaid for a woman, I mean house, I really liked.
Anyway, love this blog. Love you too Diane. Happy pimping.
Smarten, loaning money on real estate is exactly what I plan on doing in retirement. Would I be loaning money out in 2nd or 3rd position on SFR’s in the current Reno market, probably not. Like Reno Ignoramus said, it is much easier said than done. I would submit that loaning money at a 40%LTV is very rare in this or any market, and if somebody has 60% equity, they probably don’t need private money. Secondly, you suggest 2nd and 3rd position on your loan, to me that is very risky. Once the collateral is used up, what good is a civil judgment, that’s like bleeding water out of a rock? Believe me, most private money lenders that I know, currently have more money than they can safely place.
Most people cannot make money in this market, but like I said above, I make money on multifamily properties, properties I can acquire under market value, and properties that I can add value to. There are many full time invertors in this town with pockets full of cash in their pocket, and time to look around for the right deal. The successful days of the part time amateur real estate investor in Reno is over, much like the earlier stock market craze. It seems to me the amateurs are the ones who are getting hurt the worst, so if you are a pro, you know what to do, if you are an amateur, find something else to do.
“There are many full time invertors in this town …”
derrick, you’re killing me here.
Mr. Murray wrote: I would submit that loaning money at a 40% LTV is very rare in this or any market…if somebody has 60% equity, they probably don’t need private money. Secondly, you suggest 2nd and 3rd position on your loan, to me that is very risky…I make money on multifamily properties, properties I can acquire under market value, and properties that I can add value to.”
Allen, I never said invest in d/ts with 40% LTVs. I said “cushions of equity” of 40%. That translates into 60% LTVs and they exist ALL OVER THE PLACE [in and out of Reno]! The person who purchased his/her house 5 or more years ago likely has a 40% cushion of equity. And he/she may want to secure a loan to pull equity out of his/her home for emergencies or upgrades and not be able to do so easily because of today’s mortgage market.
Are 2nd and 3rd d/ts “risky?” Sure [at least compared to 1st d/ts or a passbook bank acount]. But if they weren’t, every Tom, Dick, Harry and Derrick would be purchasing them and touting how savvy they were. You asked how can the real estate “pro” make money in THIS market and I gave you my take. And if all goes south you end up being a property owner of a property YOU actually want to own. And you were able to purchase it with built in financing as part of the deal, and at a 40% discount. So what’s the risk?
And although you may have been able to make money on multi-family properties and other properties you were able to add value to in the PAST, for the reasons I outlined, you CAN’T now [at least not in Reno]. Heck, you’ve admitted you can’t even recover your out-of-pocket below market value cost you put into your personal residence [a property you’ve “added value” to], let alone an above-market return on your investment. And insofar as making money as a landlord, let me recount two real world episodes for yoru consideration.
Saturday morning I visited my Reno Citibank. A fellow walked in and told the cashier he needed to make a cash withdrawal because he had to pay his rent. The cashier asked how much was his rent? He answered $275 [and the cashier didn’t even comment how cheap that was].
Last month I was getting a haircut and my haircutter struck up a conversation. She recounted how she had moved from Truckee about 5 years ago just before the big Lake Tahoe real estate boom. She was now a renter of a duplex [a multi-family property] in a newly developed portion of the City [sorry, I don’t know my local geograpahy but it was an area to the north of the City and east of Somersett] and her rent was $475/month.
Now I’m not suggesting your multi-family rental properties only generate $275 or $475/month in rental income but where I come from, you CAN’T find ANY rental for under $K/month [I know, because I own the cheapest rental in the City - a 300 square foot studio cottage (is this something you and your family could live in?)]. If you want to make money as a landlord Allen, you need to pick a different city!
So let’s see, a 20-unit apartment building; average monthly rents [assuming 0% vacancies] of $500/unit; a fmv at 8-1/2 times yearly gross earnings of $850K? Where exactly do these properties exist Allen?
Smarten,
I’m glad we are finally having some meaningful discussion here. I just came back today from a 3 unit building that a friend was looking at, they wanted my opinion. The property was grossing $3800 mo, sales price was $480K, 2 blocks from university. They wanted to know what I would charge to convert the basement to a 4th unit. Landlord paid all utilities to the tune of $500mo, but still a pretty good deal. I sold a 3 unit nearby last November to an investor in SF for $480K that was grossing $2850mo…about a 6 cap. Their deal was better.
Secondly, if you must know…I have about $850K into my $1.2m residence. When I say I won’t make any money, I’m talking about my usual $15-20% markup. Please don’t assume what you don’t know, you’re a lawyer aren’t you? I say good luck, with your private lending, its a great idea in concept, keep us posted, I think you will find it very hard to implement. Nobody makes trust deeds with the intent of having to repo the property, especially in 2nd and 3rd position. The people with 40% equity in their properties are the smart ones that didn’t turn their house into a charge account and most likely don’t need to borrow private money at a higher rate than the banks. If you aren’t charging more than the banks 6.5%, it isn’t worth the risk, last I checked, CD’s were running 5-5.5%. My private lender used to be one of the cheaper guys around at 10%, and I had a hard time spending his money for him.
Grand Wazoo….I’m guessing by your comment that you don’t believe there are many full time investors here???? You obviously haven’t been out bid lately by someone with a pocket full of cash. All I can say is that you obviously aren’t in the same game I’m playing in.
Allen - you seem to be wound a bit tight. My previous comment was merely noting you used the word “invertors” instead of “investors”. Given the number of real estate deals in Reno that are upside down (inverted) I thought this was hilarious!
You’re not inverted just a bit yourself, are you?
Wazoo, you aren’t the first to say that I’m wound a bit tight, maybe you’re right. Its hard to have an opinion on this board without getting beaten up, so maybe I’m a bit defensive,… plus I still have Playa dust in my eyes……..cheers!
Allen Murray wrote: “If you must know…I have about $850K into my $1.2M residence.”
Guess what Allen? Your $1.2M residence is probably only a $850K residence and you’re in denial. Or stated differently, Diane probably declined to list your home because you’re really not a seller - you’ll only sell if you get your price. If not, because you don’t have to sell, you won’t.
And BTW, in a previous post I thought you indicated you’d be willing to sell your personal residence for just your out-of-pocket cost BEFORE your usual and customary 15%-20% profit. That was the only reason I indicated an interest in possibly purchasing it.
Now that I realize you’re just like every other Tom, Dick and Harry seller who’s living in the clouds, I’m not interested. If I wanted to pay retail [and aren’t you the one who stated you never buy retail?], there are thousands of properties out there to choose from! Sorry.
Smarten…I take your opinion with a grain of salt. You seem somewhat educated and seem to mostly know what you are talking about. Again you are assuming too much, I thought in law school they teach you not to do that without the facts. Tell me what makes you an expert? You never seem to back your B.S. with real world experience, just theory. Only time will tell who is right. I’ll keep you posted.
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