Some of you have said that you like the "story" posts where the history of certain properties are profiled. Here are a couple that showed up as NOSs today. They couldn’t be more different in location or price range, but both were long term holds by the owners. If you don’t like these sort of posts and find them catty, just check back later for posts that are more revalent.
This is the story of 561 McDonald in Incline Village. It is not currently on the MLS, but it may have been in the past. The current owners purchased the property in March 1999 for $292,500, and remodeled and expanded the home during 2001-2002.
– 8/25/01 – Second of $107,000?
– 11/6/01 – Refi $450,000 30 year fixed.
– 5/6/02 – Second for $100,000.
– 9/3/02 – Refi for $650,000 30 year fixed.
– 1/4/03 – Refi again for $650,000.
– 4/14/03 – HELOC $100,000.
– 1/19/04 – HELOC $100,000, probably replaced the old one.
– 3/15/06 – HELOC $455,000.
– 12/21/07 – Refi $1,500,000 40 year fixed. (hadn’t credit already tightened?)
– 2/11/09 – IRS lien for about $48,000.
– 4/29/09 – NOD for missed January payment.
– 5/8/09 – NOS $1,467,695.
I don’t know this property, but the owner seems to have also been in the partnership that sold 620 Martis Peak $3,675,000 in March. Any comments from you Incliners?
On the other end of the spectrum is 12150 South Hills in southwest Reno, a real working class home. It was purchased for $140,000 in December 2000. Previous sales were $170K in 1991,$150K in 1997, and a weird $205K in 2000 just before the owner’s purchase. It is not currently on the MLS, but I think it has been in the past. The buyers had an interesting past history- judgments were recorded against them in 4/92 and 7/92. The received a NOD on their residence 6/93, and sold it 6/94. More judgments in 8/94, 6/98, and 6/99. That lead up to the 12/00 purchase with a $112,000 first and a $21,000 second, $7000 down. Then:
– 7/11/02 – Refi $195,000, 2/28, 7.375 LIBOR +5.95%.
– 7/7/04 – Another judgment for $6250.
– 2/9/05 – NOD.
– 3/29/05 – Hard Money second for $36,000.
– 6/2/05 – Another judgment for $5215.
– 10/13/05 – NOD on 2nd.
– 2/2/06 – Another NOD on the 2nd. It appears the loan was brought current, then further payments.
– 3/10/06 – NOD on 1st mortgage.
– 6/15/06 – Refi for $300,000, 2/28 at $9.8% LIBOR + 7.65% – OUCH.
– 9/08 – NOD for missed April payment.
– 9/10/08 – NOS, $336K.
– 3/25/09 – A new NOS filed, $321K. Very strange.
– 6/11/09 – Washoe tax deed.
– 8/5/09 NOS.
Both of these homes are (were) owned by small business owners, and I suspect a lot of the cash-outs funded their businesses. The IRS lien notice on McDonald is something I run into often, especially on upper tier properties. These notices are searchable on the Recorder’s site. I am dumbstruck that ANY financial institution would ever have loaned on South Hills given the past history of the owner.
Any comments?
Grand Wazoo
Well, here’s a question for you Mike:
How do you research the sales/loan history of a property based only on the address? I’m navigating the Washoe Recorder’s site to my satisfaction, but I don’t recall you can specify an address to search on – only names of the parties involved in a particular transaction.
So – for purely an academic example – say I wanted the purchase/sale/loan history of the last 10 years of a property like <cough, cough) 1025 Manor Drive in Reno. From the department of amazing coincidence, this property just happens to be on the MLS #90010490 for $585K. This is exactly the kind of joint what Mrs. Wazoo and I would like to buy, yet the price stuns us – it is a whole lot smaller than it looks online given the stated 2600 sq/ft, a good portion of that must be the finished basement. The place next door, certainly smaller, sold in June for $330K.
How should I proceed?
Reno Ignoramus
Wazoo,
It is one of the great mysteries of real estate how a house like, say, 1025 Manor Drive, could have sold on 10/22/03 for $271,620, and then only 10 months later, on 8/13/04, sold for $596,500. One marvels how a house like this could have appreciated $324,880 in 10 months.
If I may quote form the Led Zepelin’s classic Stairway to Heaven,
“And it makes me wonder.”
Grand Wazoo
Well put RI – but how did you find the sales price prior to the most recent sale? That is what currently has me stumped.
If the Zep is your guide in these troubled real estate times, then perhaps you should consider another famous line of theirs:
“Shake it for me baby, I want to be your back door man”.
Not me, in Reno, no way.
Do like the house though …
gobagheera
I’m pretty sure you can search the past sales history on the Washoe recorders’ site, but another resource would be Zillow, which pulls that data from public records.
Reno Ignoramus
Wazoo,
Go the County Assessor’s website, search by street address or APN, then click on the prior sales link. It does not show prior sales back forever,but does show the last several years.
Something strange indeed here when this house more than doubles in value in 10 months. The summer of 2004 was when the bubble was roaring big time, but few houses “appreciated” by 120% in 10 months.
So the sellers here are asking 8/2004 pricing. The sellers apparently do not know that there is not a house in Reno today that is worth what it was in 8/04. Even Caughlin Ranch, which has held up as well as any part of town, is down about 25% from the summer of 2004, and down about 30% from the bubble high.
“Whole Lotta Love”
I suspect Robert Plant maybe knew something about being a back door man…….
Carole
Interesting that RI says Caughlin Ranch values are down 30% from the peak. I live in CR, and I have a HELOC on my house there. I have not had a balance on the HELOC for a long time, but have kept it in place just in case. Well, today I got a letter from my HELOC lender, Wells Fargo, telling me it has reduced the amount of my HELOC by, guess what? 30%. The letter says that due to a “substantial decline in the value of the property” they have no choice but to reduce my available amount by 30%.
The letter concludes by telling me that Wells Fargo is there for my every need.
inclinejj
It is one of the great mysteries of real estate how a house like, say, 1025 Manor Drive, could have sold on 10/22/03 for $271,620, and then only 10 months later, on 8/13/04, sold for $596,500. One marvels how a house like this could have appreciated $324,880 in 10 months.
Easy its called a bogus transaction..or a cash and dash
inclinejj
McDonald..Owned by an IV General Contractor and Realtor wife
FutureRenoHomebuyer
Wazoo,
I, too, am very surprised by the stickiness of the listing prices in the old southwest/newlands area. Either the sellers are delusional, or it’s a pocket of amazing stability in this financial storm.
Might it be a testament to the solid value in the area that it hasn’t fallen so much in this cataclysm? Even considering that, you would think the area would get in sync with the rest of Reno sometime soon.
I guess the point is that the only cure for the housing mess is lower prices, not government subsidies and bailouts, which artificially keep prices higher. If the price of your place on Manor got in line with the market, a place like that would sell and be occupied by a financially qualified owner going forward. Instead, Trulia lists it as being on the market for 179 days, which is probably less than the actual number. So it sits.
Well, with the massive Prime Loan default tsunami just around the corner, my guess is that the last delusional holdouts are about to get religion.
Sully
1025 Manor was built in 1942 (during the war). Completely remodeled from 1300 ft to 2600 (1300 ft in basement). Perhaps explaining the rapid price appreciation.
Wazoo, is the basement ceiling 8′ ?
Houses built during WWII are very suspect, as copper and steel were rare. I’ve seen homes built in this era with only 9 nails holding up a 4 x 8 piece of sheet rock.
I would wonder where else they took short cuts. Even a complete remodel may not uncover structural problems, roof rafters etc.
At least its priced high enough to keep most people from actually buying it. 🙂
Carole
For what it’s worth, Zillow estimates the value of 1025 Manor Drive at $377,000.
The listing includes the basement in the sq. footage of the house. Many listings do not include the basement in the sq. footage, even a finished one. But it does help bring down the price per sq. ft. if the basement is included.
billddrummer
Re McDonald,
I’m guessing the owners, if they were contractors, were having bangup years in 2003-2006, so whoever made the loan in December 2007 looked at their 2006 financial records. Probably showed big profits.
Ralston
The median price of a house went up 60% in Las Vegas in 2004. LV had the most speculative market in the country. For a house in Reno to go up 120% in 10 months in 2004 is the result of some funny business.
inclinejj
I’m guessing the owners, if they were contractors, were having bangup years in 2003-2006, so whoever made the loan in December 2007 looked at their 2006 financial records. Probably showed big profits.
Yep, like everyone else who lived it up during the boom years..Even the Woodchucks put away enough nuts for the heavy winters!!
People spent like no ones business during the boom I saw it first hand..People refinancing every 6-8 months and pulling out cash or paying off credit cards every time
Zen
Wazoo,
I own a brick bungalow built around 1930 very close to 1025 Manor. It’s almost 1400sf, plus around 1200sf basement. If you even think about buying 1025 Manor for anywhere near the asking price, we should talk.
1025 Manor Drive
For full details on the house at 1025 Manor Drive please visit http://www.1025manordrive.com. To see the house first-hand, schedule a showing through your realtor or call Kathleen Knuf-Felte at 775-741-5961.
Grand Wazoo
Hello 1025 Manor Drive! Very nice of you to drop by and say hello.
So – while you’re here – please explain to all of us blog readers how a sixty year single story home with 1300 square feet on the main floor is worth five hundred eighty five thousand dollars.
We’re waiting.
promus1
Wazoo,
I have noticed a few pockets of stickiness in the Reno area, the aforementioned Newlands area, Fleur de Leis (FdL) condos, older Virgina foothills etc.
I often like to compare the Fleur de Leis prices with Fallen Leaf (Wedge Pkwy condos). The FL condos have fallen off a cliff to the low $100, while the FdL’s seem to have remained stubbornly above the $200K level.
We could argue on quality of construction, amenities and location until the cows come home (both kind of crappy, but FdL amenities are superior when not broken), but I do not see $100K worth.
I theorize that it has to come down to the timing of the market, how a two year delay in development would doom a complex, while leaving the other complex with far less depreciation. Maybe FdL may yet come down in price, but I’m not seeing this yet.
Any comments or theories, civilized or other are welcome.
Promus1
1025 Manor Drive
Grand Wazoo,
The house at 1025 Manor Drive is 2,644 square feet. The entire house was remodeled in 2004… new plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical, finishes and fixtures and a completely finished basement (to code) that added a large family room, two bedrooms, a full bath and a laundry room. Since 2004 subsequent improvements have been made to the home. As the listing describes, this home is the perfect mixture of the original charm and modern amenities.
You mentioned the house next door. It sold in June 2009 for $330,000 or $261 per square foot. Other than one bathroom added in 2008, that house has not been remodeled… still on oil, original sheet metal kitchen, outdated electrical, etc. Neither lenders nor appraisers can use a single sale as a comp, but by that calculation, 1025 Manor could be listed for around $675,000.
I’m not suggesting that the old southwest is immune to the current state of Reno’s (or the nation’s) real estate market. However, I do think that a home like the one at 1025 Manor Drive is a rarity in that it is completely remodeled and filled with top-notch finishes. The house’s next owner can move right in without pounding a nail or replacing a fixture.
What I think is happening here is what makes Reno’s old southwest unique. Each home has it’s own character, and along with that, it’s own liveability. Comps are not always easy to find because of the unique characteristics of each home. However, when you consider the level of finish and the turnkey status of the house at 1025 Manor Drive, I think the asking price is fair.
billddrummer
To Grand Wazoo,
According to the Assessor’s website, the taxable square footage excludes the finished basement. Now, I’m not saying that the basement space isn’t livable (according to the photos, it is), but you could save some $$$ on property tax the way it’s assessed.
Having said that, it is interesting that the owners of 1025 Manor sold the property across the street in December 2008 for $435,000, or $214/s.f. of assessed valuation. Applying that sales price to the assessed square footage at 1025 Manor gives a prospective sale price of $279,000.
The truth is probably somewhere between.
FutureRenoHomebuyer
“Comps are not always easy to find because of the unique characteristics of each home.”
Yeah, right. How many agents have used that line before? Maybe in an up market that’ll get by, but not in this one. While floor plans will certainly vary, things like location, square footage, material condition, and amenities are pretty good grounds for an objective assessment of price. I don’t think that a finished basement with no windows is equivalent square footage to above ground areas with ambient light and airflow.
Thus, when you are considering a finished basement to be premium square footage (avg. $/sq ft >$220), you are either in denial, hopelessly optimistic, or shifty.
This discussion will be settled in the fullness of time, when 1025 Manor sells for significantly less than the current asking price. I think $350k begins a discussion for where this place should be priced.
1025 Manor Drive
FutureRenoHomebuyer,
“I don’t think that a finished basement with no windows is equivalent square footage to above ground areas with ambient light and airflow.”
I suggest you call your realtor and schedule a showing before you attempt to describe the house. And I suggest you keep your personal comments to yourself.
Grand Wazoo
1025 Manor Drive – personal comments is what this blog is all about.
I completely agree with FRH – $350K is a reasonable price, and I really agree with this bit:
“Thus, when you are considering a finished basement to be premium square footage (avg. $/sq ft >$220), you are either in denial, hopelessly optimistic, or shifty”
This house (which I like very much) will go into foreclosure before it sells much north of $400K, unless there is some fancy footwork with the price stated at the Recorder’s office.
The Kool-Aid has finally run dry.
Code Guy
The listing agent obviously knew how to use the Assessor’s site. It is listed as 2644 SF, which is the sum of the official 1329 first floor and 1315 finished basement http://www.co.washoe.nv.us/assessor/cama/quickinfoform.php~ParcelID=011-291-50&CardNumber=1 You might want to reference the last permit date!
The Assessor probably rated this under the old UBC (Universal Building Code). My recollection is that a basement was defined as a level that was more than 4′ below grade over 50% of the perimeter. The current IBC (International Residential Code)is even more restrictive in its definition of basements and stories above grade.
So listing agent, you are on report that you are falsifying the square footage of the property in your listing based on Assessor’s data. Maybe your were clueless before, but now you know. Can we expect a revision to the listing clearly identifying the square footage that you are including in your listing as including finished basement space?
Hey, I don’t mean to scare you away, and I love that you have become part of this discussion. Just play fair and honestly, and you will get a lot of love here.
Grand Wazoo
Last permit = 2001.
Oops.
billddrummer
Good comments Code Guy!!!
That’s the kind of raising the curtain commentary that makes this blog so valuable.
And if I may be blunt, the fact that the existing owners sold a property across the street seven months ago (establishing a comp?) smacks of an attempt (faulty) to influence a potential buyer’s decision based on a recent comp.
People who read this blog are more intelligent than that.
Seeking Reno
Grand Wazoo and billddrummer need to get their facts straight… there is a remodel permit dated 12/5/2003 for 1025 Manor Drive. And the owners didn’t sell the house across the street, they bought it! They paid $215 per square foot which puts their asking price for 1025 Manor right in the ballpark.
If you’re going to save the real estate world anonymously through your computer, at least get your facts correct.
Grand Wazoo
I stand corrected – there is a remodel permit for 2003. There appears to be an error on the assessor’s entry for this property – “Last Permit” shows 2001, drilling down from that link shows the permit for 2003.
RenoNative
Wow, a lot of hoopla about a house! Seems like a lot of detectives and pseudo appraiser/real estate agents in here too. 😉 By the time this topic is finished, the sellers will be accused of being KGB who are attempting to further disrupt the U.S. economy and help fund their secret space ship.
You know, in the good old days if people thought a home was overpriced, they moved on. Not that I don’t enjoy the entertainment of a good blog, but I think people enjoy taking things way too far at the expense of other people. If overpricing was a crime, much of the world would be criminals. That said, like many of you, I haven’t been inside the home. Additionally, many homes in the Old Southwest were bought out of emotion rather than logic (I’m one of them).
Now should we find some other homes to berate or should we just continue to slam this one?
billddrummer
Sorry for my error. In the broad scheme of things, what difference does it make anyway?
As Keynes said, “In the long run, we’re all dead.”
billddrummer
And to Grand Wazoo,
I guess we’ve both been flamed by Seeking Reno.
Oh well, I’ve been called worse.