It seems like the Montage and downtown issues are what everyone wants to talk about, so I’ll give them their own thread. Rumors certainly have been swirling lately. At least 2 readers of this blog have units reserved at the Montage – maybe they could give us the "facts" as they know them – and many more readers are plugged into the industry. I have absolutely no inside information, but will share what I have found in the public records.
When a project starts going bad financially, the contractors, subcontractors, suppliers and consultants are usually the first to know – they aren’t getting paid and start filing liens. There are NO significant liens on the property, and the industry scuttlebutt is that everyone are happy campers.
The $143,164,000 construction loan for the project (Recorder Document 3478066 21 December 2006) has a maturity date of 15 December 2008. This is probably the source of the "going back to Corus Bank on the 15th" rumor. The recorded deed of trust includes references to unrecorded documents that allow extensions of the loan up to 15 May 2009. Could the rumor be true? Yes, but I highly doubt it.
A buyer can’t close on a unit until it has received a Certificate of Occupancy (CO) from the City. Although there are some out-standing floors still under permit, the majority of the project had received COs by 20 November 2008. The Montage would not have been able to issue their enforceable 30 Day Closure Notifications to buyers until they received the COs, and closings could not begin until 20 December at the earliest. Closings are phased, since everyone can’t move in at once.
$143,164,000 divided by 370 units = $386,930 per unit. The project pro forma would also have included allowances for carrying costs, construction contingencies, sales and marketing costs, and of course profit. If you assume 30% for these costs, it would put the expected average unit sale price at a scooch over $500,000.
I really like the Montage, and "Mikey hates everything". Everything has been built to first class standards, and I admire Fernando Leal’s vision and commitment to downtown Reno. It will be a big blow to all of us if the project is not successful.
On another but related note, DowntownMakeoverDude has a great article on the Reno City Council prioritizing the 73 projects they would like to be part of the (still theoretical) Main Street Stimulus Package. Make sure to check out the list and leave comments, both there and here and with your councilperson.
AlmostBought
Well then at the risk of a new record let this be #101.
Does anyone have a feel or recommendation on a course of action to get us buyers deposits back? After all it’s not Mr Leal at this point we’re trying to get it back from. That ship has sailed.
DownButNotOut
So to summarize – the project is beautiful, it really has done great things for Downtown – even with this setback. Fernando’s a great visionary that got caught in bad economic times.It could happen to anybody. So it turns over to the bank.
Corus is suspect. This is the 10th large condo project they’re foreclosing on. The likelihood is there are more to come, and they themselves may be in more trouble than the just owning the Montage. They have sold a number of their foreclosures at auction prices.
The general thinking is, even discounted there aren’t enough people that think these condos are worth the asking price. The probable course of action – Corus puts for sale at auction the balance of the condos they can’t close on, thereby slashing the value for those that bought. But at least they are sold, downtown gets 370 new residents (minimum) and we start to see the revitalization move move towards better days. Not bad.
The downside I guess is the people that originally put their money forward in the form of a deposit on the project, or who even still believe so strongly in Corus Bank they go ahead and buy. But then that’s business right? In the end no one died.
BanteringBear
“Fernando’s a great visionary that got caught in bad economic times.It could happen to anybody. So it turns over to the bank.”
I’m sorry, but wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. His failure has nothing to do with the economy. His business plan was horribly FLAWED. The price points never made sense, and that’s why he’s done. The whole project was a pipe dream. He’s no different than every other “developer” who’s getting cooked because they didn’t consider economic realities.
Sure, he’s a great visionary alright- if we’re talking about someone given to fantasies and illusory dreams which are impractical and unrealistic. But if you’re insinuating that he’s a visionary of keen foresight, you’re out of your mind.
DownButNotOut
BB – But I can’t possibly understand how you can criticize this project?
The bottom line is those who invested got sold out.
They’re idiots if they go further, they’re idiots for buying. Nice.
To quote:
‘ No one died. Nobody was cheated.’
Well from my standpoint that’s a matter of perspective.
$100 to a homeless man is a lot of money.
Sub
It was mentioned that the property is lein free, which theoretically means all subcontractors on the project got paid. I would like to hear from someone involved in the construction phase if they were paid 100% or if some deals were made (i.e. – we’ll pay you 80% now, or you can fight for your money and potentially receive nothing).
downtownjunkie
I totally agree with Downbutnotout. The more RESIDENTS we can get downtown the faster the revitalization. I would definitely buy a unit at 55% off.
DonC
BB says “His failure has nothing to do with the economy. His business plan was horribly FLAWED.”
This reminds me of when a friend of mine got me together with a friend he had gone to school with to talk about investing in a new venture his friend was starting. I looked at the plan, which had to do with selling high priced coffee to Yuppies and DINKs, and quickly concluded that it was flawed because no one was going to pay that much for something they oculd get for less than half at a lot of other places.
So I passed on Starbucks!
The moral is: it’s easier to evaluate flawed or brilliant business plans retrospectively than prospectively.
BanteringBear
DonC posted:
“The moral is: it’s easier to evaluate flawed or brilliant business plans retrospectively than prospectively.”
Of course it is. But some of use were poking holes in these plans at their conception, long before ground was broken, and were ridiculed as if our thinking was flawed.
Most anyone can come up with 5 bucks for a cup of coffee, but not $500k for a condo. Big difference. That said, Starbucks isn’t looking so hot lately. The bubble made even the silliest plans look prudent, we’re now seeing all of the holes.
Montagebuyer3
Well I guess the best use for the Montage is helping out with the homeless problem. This winter has been very cold and the downtown Reno homeless shelters are full. Mr. Leal should open the Montage condo units to help house the homeless and utlize this surpluses housing for the good of the community. It would show he really cares about downtown Reno.
DownButNotOut
I understand the new prices are out for the condos at the Montage. Has anybody heard anything?
Grand Wazoo
… and how do these new prices figure in to the monthly HOA fee?
DownButNotOut
Wazoo -Maybe if we wait long enough they’ll pay these too? Or should those be comped also?
stjoe56
1. Corus will finance – allegedly a 30-yr ARM with a 5-year lock.
2. First closing is expected around the third week of January 2009.
LoftBuyer
Are you a buyer stjoe? I was just told different terms – Corus is financing with a standard no-ARMs 30 year fixed with 20% down. Do not want to post my price, but happy with discount
Martin
And when Corus auctions off the 70% of the units that don’t sell?
Step right up happy contract holders, tell us about how happy you are with your discount, and then come back here a year from today after Corus auctions off units for 50% less than what you pay, and tell us how happy you are then.
LoftBuyer
Well, withot naming specific closing price, I received nearly 40% off my contract price. I would like to know what others received. I doubt Corus Bank will auction off the units. I did my own research, and Corus auctioned off units on only one of their ten South Florida Projects, and it was a one time fire sale only on only 144 units in a 600-unit project, for the Edge Condos. There are no other record of any kind. It would be ill-informed to say Corus systematically auctions off the units at each of their projects when it only happened at one, once, last year, in a market with 10,000+ condo glut. When you look at the discounts in that one auction, they already equal the discounts I received as a buyer at the Montage, 40%-ish off the asking price.
My purchase is a long term investment, not a short term. Do I care about short term investors (5 years or less) trying to wiggle out of their Montage contracts? No. Tough luck. All this talk of Montage buyers trying to get out of their contracts is ridiculous. Everyone else in this country who made horrible investments and purcahsed new homes in 2005/2006 don’t get to cry fowl and suddenly say ‘oops sorry I want to repurchase my home at today’s value and not when I signed the contract to buy it’. Anyone who purchased their condo here as anything other than a 2nd home or primary residence, stop whining and get out of the game. I got out of the game in 2003, and sold my Southwest Reno home at a ridiculously high price. I bet it’s not worth that now! Renting until the Montage is done. I want to move in dammit! open it already. Retirement here I come, yard free and maintenance free.
Ellen
I am interested to know what the “discount” is off of original asking prices.
Is 25% off of absurdity still absurdity?
Ellen
Thanks for the info LoftBuyer. Can others verify they are getting 40% off of original pricing?
billddrummer
I hope the discounts (haircuts) provided by Corus Bank are reasonable for purchasers.
The question I have is this: If Corus is successful in selling the units at a discount, how much will the bank ultimately write off against the project? The original construction deed of trust stated that the maximum advance was north of $286 million.
Corus is a big bank (now). But a couple of projects like this one will definitely leave a mark.
Riley
It appears that all of the Montage listings in the MLS have been pulled. It will be interesting to see when they come back and at what ‘discounts’.
Billddrummer, it is well known that Corus is in deep trouble. Somebody posted above that Corus is offering about the highest 1 year CD rate in the country. Something like 5.7%. Obvioulsy it is sucking for cash. It has belly up condo projects all over the country.
stjoe56
Loftbuyer:
I am a buyer. I got a call this morning and asked specifically about the rate. I was told this orally and requested that I be sent something in writing.
I was told that was no problem and a letter will go out.
SJ
DownButNotOut
Corus is in trouble like most all banks. But that 5.7% offering was a while ago and no longer being offered.
The real question is are these condo’s now priced right for a sale? I gather most readers here feel it is always going to be overpriced, but I sense there are many of us who feel, based on the product and what’s out there, we’re now in the price range that makes financial sense. If that’s true, and L3 stays on and develops an aggressive marketing plan (which is what I was told) then there shouldn’t be any reason for any but the very last of the units going to auction. And these will be the least desirable ones.If I’m wrong and the condos don’t sell, well then a price adjustment will have to be made again, either through lowering sales price or at auction prices. But that’s the case with all buyers and sellers right now.Can you time the market?
inclinejj
Take a look on Corus Banks webpage at the exposure they have to big condo complexes in Miami Florida..
Corus Bank will not be around that much longer
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2008/10/27/daily46.html
http://www.corusbank.com/DealsbyRegion.asp?region=West
http://www.corusbank.com/DealsbyRegion.asp?region=Southeast
http://www.corusbank.com/DealsbyRegion.asp?region=Midwest
Over 3 billion in exposure to Ca and FL
Simplistic
Am I being too simplist here? I have a contract to purchase the property from 225 North Sierra Street LLC. 225 North Sierra does not own the property. I should get my deposit back.
TOW
Simplistic, I see it the same way. I know there are people here who will smack us down for saying so, but it seems to me the 225 North Sierra Street,LLC has defaulted. But there is some clause in the contract that they claim allows them to assign their interest to Corus bank. I think it is a question for a judge or an arbitrator to settle.
smarten
Tom said “but there is some clause in the contract that they claim allows them to assign their interest to Corus bank.”
Is there NOT some clause in the same contract that prevents the purchaser from making the same kind of assignment to a new purchaser?
So you mean it’s okay for the seller to assign the rights to its contract, but it’s not okay for the purchaser to do the same thing? I don’t think so.
And as I understand the situation, purchasers’ deposits remain in escrow. That means the seller can’t unilaterally cause their disbursal. That means a lawsuit is coming unless a whole bunch of purchasers who want out of their contracts retains a single attorney [are there any lurking out there?] to negotiate an extra-judicial exit.
Tom
Tow, not Tom.
A typo in Smarten’s post, I believe; I didn’t make any such comment.
smarten
Sorry Tom, my mistake.
bondstevenbond
40% off? Wipe Corpse Bank off the map!
!
I don’t know if enough buyers will have any interest there but at least it is a good first step in bringing sincere buyers to the table after several years of hype, fantasy and fiction.
If you sense a bit of disgust in this post, I suppose it is true. If the seller (and many, many other real estate sellers in this city)would have marked Montage’s offering prices to market during the past three years then perhaps the Montage would not be in such a dire situation. But alas, real estate never works that way. As Angelo Mozillo, the infamous founder/CEO of Countrywide replied to a question in December 2006 about whether the next real estate downturn would be a soft-bottom or full blown recession, “I’ve been doing real estate for 43 years, and I’ve never seen a soft-bottom” he said. So now a lot of people around the world wish Angelo was in jail (or at least, we wish he said “sorry”) for stoking up the fires of hell and oiling up the machinery to accommodate all those sinful predatory borrowers and predator lenders. But I digress…the question is, is 40% off enough to make new buyers like me want to buy?
As a person who never bought into Montage, now I am at least willing to take a look at buying into the Montage at 40% off. But I don’t even know how. I drove around the building last week and it had a chain link fence around it. It looked deserted and empty. Anybody know if/when the general public will hear about a 40% off price on Montage units?
Second question. Why should I have any confidence whatsoever that Corpse Bank (opps!!!) will survive when its stock is already trading near zero??? If investors don’t want it for free, it’s only because it is already dead. Why would anyone buy into a building whose main owner is a dead bank??? Corus needs to get wiped off the map before legitimate buyers will want to move in.
DownButNotOut
Bond, your points are well taken. In the end though this building will be the best thing that has happened to downtown. It will once it’s filled, however that comes about. I for one toured it this week and am planning on purchasing now that I feel the prices reflect current value. By the way, the sales room was packed, which was a first.Will it pan out with Corpse? good question. Anyone know what happens to a place like this when the bank goes boobs up?
Walter
It sure would be nice to have some FACTS about the Montage at this point in time instead of the usual rumors that swirl around real estate.
Is it a FACT that prices have been reduced by 40%?If so, where can I go to independenlty verify that fact?
What, EXACTLY, are the financing options that are now available? Is it 20% down with fixed rate financing? Is it an ARM? What is it? Where can I go to verify this?
Is Corus willing to make ANY warranties that the unsold units won’t be auctioned off? If so, where can I go to verify that?
This I heard from somebody who heard from somebody who talked to somebody who knows somebody who knows what’s going on is way to reminiscient of the “buy now because this is a great deal” that will never again come your way that was going on in 2004-2005.
FACTS, anybody?
DowntownMakeoverDude
The ‘facts’ are:
1. No one is getting out of their Montage Contracts. You can huff and huff, but you won’t be able to blow that house down. Frankly, I am getting sick of hearing from speculative buyers who have wanted out of their contracts from day one. They represent a SMALL portion of Montage Buyers…THAT is a fact, and not speculation.
2. I was told by 3 buyers that all buyers can choose to purchase a less expensive unit, or a more expensive unit, they aren’t obligated to purchase the unit they contracted for. Just as long as they purchase something. I was told some buyers are actually upgrading to more expensive units. Some are downgrading as well to something they can afford.
3. Judging from buyer comments, no discounts for contracted buyers are the same. I don’t think there was a singular across-the board discount for all buyers, it probably depends on the price of the unit you purchased, etc. But from all the buyers that have emailed me, no one mentioned under 30% so far. However, there WAS an across-the-board price cut for unsold units, which I was told the new pricing should be released/marketed next week. Buyers are being presented with their options one by one. With 140+ contracts you can imagine that process takes a while.
4. They are hiring 3 real estate agents to help deal with the sudden demand.
5. The prices they are now offering units at are already approaching the levle of discounts they offered at the ONE auction sale they did in Florida for ONE of their many condo projects. (Whoever said Corus systematically auctions off units at all their projects is full of crap. On all of the South Florida real estate bogs I found, there was only ‘one’ fire sale in ‘one’ of the many projects Corus holds, and it was only 140 units in a HUGE condo project, and these blogs track these auctions like candy.
6. Corus’s stock may be trading low, but when I chatted with a financial friend of mine over lunch who mulled over Corus’ Q3 report, he said they had a huge cash reserve (over $1 billion) to help deal with troublesome loans, and that many of the loans they have in Florida, they don’t have 100% liability for because they were primarily mezzanine loans from other banks or something. Can anyone who has viewed Corus’ Q3 report elaborate on this or what it means? Financial guru, I am not. Also, not all of Corus’ projects in South Florida are in touble either.
DowntownMakeoverDude
Oops I wanted to say I wasn’t referring to anyone on this blog as a speculative investor buyer, like TOW or others, I re-read my comment and it kind of sounds like I was. I am referring to the emails I received from people that keep asking if I know any loop holes to get out of their Montage contracts for units they bought as investments.
GreenNV
Montage – the topic that wouldn’t die!
From a public records point of view, L3 and Corus have been dotting the t’s and crossing the i’s. The parcel maps for phases 3 and 4 have been recorded. Commercial Street, air rights, and everything else promised have been deeded over to the City. It looks like the deed in lieu has been completed, and assigned to a new entity – Montage Marketing Corporation. Everything looks like it is being taken care of.
1. I’ll cut L3/Corus a bit of slack on the lack of disclosure to the public. They one have one shot to get it right, and the first order of business is to attend to the existing contract holders.
2. Someone said the sales office was hopping. The times I’ve driven by in the last 2 week, it was closed and “whited” out. And I agree with whoever said that it is time to get the chain link fence down, the sidewalk open, and the project looking finished. I promise not to tag the townhouse units.
3. I am amazed by the reticence of the contract holders to discuss details on any of the 3 sites covering the Montage. Is there a non-disclosure agreement in place? Are they being shown some sort of “certified” new price list for the rest of the unsold units?
4. Very wise of the Montage to allow the contract holders to swap out units. With the price reductions and moving your unit down a few floors, your deposit can equal the 20% down payment need to get financing.
5. I’ve heard a range of 23% to 40% reductions, depending on when and how hard you negotiated your original deal with the Montage. That new price list for unsold units is key. If it is so good that it will create a buying tidal wave, why hasn’t it been released? Wouldn’t the rush of public interest help motivate the contract holders to sign on?
6. Are they really “hiring” Realtors or “engaging” Realtors? Salary, salary plus incentives / commissions, or pure commission? Just curious! Maybe I’ll get my license and get rich.
If it were me, I would be buying full page ads, listing all the unit prices at a level to create a frenzy, offer current contract holders deals below the new asking to compel them to sign on. I wish a true insider would step up and tell us what is really going on. Without that input, I wary.
Martin
I went down there today. The sales office was closed. I didn’t see where all the “sudden demand” was demonstrating itself.
I don’t get all the secrecy either. What’s the point? It’s not like we all are not going to know what a buyer paid. It’s a matter of public record just as soon as the deed is recorded. And we’re going to know all the buyers names too.
I still fail to understand how anybody who buys today can have any assurance that in the future Corus won’t underprice them. Call it an auction, call it just lowering the prices, call it whatever you want. People going forward, and who knows how many there really are, must either 1) have decided that the deal they are offered is just so great prices cannot possibly fall from here, or 2) have decided prices may fall, but they don’t care.
1) is naive. 2) is their choice.
TOW
DMD and GreenNV, I respect your intelligence and well organized thoughts. I am not an investor or any kind of expert on these issues. I am someone who was trying to make downtown Reno my home. It sounds like some people have contempt for me or others who are trying to get solid information and protect themselves. DMD, you say that there is no way out of the contract. Are you saying that there has been a court ruling or arbitration finding that has settled this matter?
stjoe56
I have a deposit on a unit: a two bedroom unit on a high floor.
Two/three weeks ago I did call in response to the second email that was sent out. Cory was busy and Leal quickly called me back. He said there would be price reductions and special financing. I asked for something in WRITING
Since then, not a word, not a peep. I have heard/received NOTHING. This does not give me a warm/fuzzy feeling.
SJ
Walter
TOW, you have to realize one thing. MakeoverDude is downtown’s biggest cheerleader. Which is fine. But in his enthusiasm for All Things Downtown, he often loses his perspective. His most recent comment on the Montage is an example. This comment is nothing more than a shill piece for the Montage and his infatuation with Fernando Leal. It is foolish for anybody to say that, unequivocably, a contract is absolutely bulletproof in the absence of a judicial determination. But that’s just Dude’s losing his balance again. Now he will probably come back and say that, well he didn’t intend to give legal advice.
As far as your desire to get FACTS about the Montage, I am in complete agreement with you. I imagine that sooner or later the Montage will have to produce a new price list, and will return to the MLS. Then at least we will know what price changes have been implemented. As far as “discounts” to current contract purchasers, we will be able to see what those purchase prices were once the deeds are recorded. Then a view of the ‘Montage market’ will begin to emerge, and people won’t have to be flying so much in the dark.
I agree with the sentiments of others that so far there has been more darkness than light shed on the Montage. I suggest we wait a couple more weeks to see if more light is shed. If the darkness and secrecy continue, I will have to conclude it is intentional.
Just remember to take whatever DMD says with a big grain of salt.
DonC
Out of curiosity, what is everyone’s take on how the Palladio compare to the Montage? I’m interested in at looking a some downtown properties and it would be great to get everyone’s take on the differences.
As for those who have signed contracts, I don’t know about Nevada but buyers in Miami have found it more or less impossible to get out of their purchase contracts. There have been many articles written about this. The contracts are fairly tight and getting out of one is not an easy absent unusual circumstances.
As for the bank offering deals to current buyers, from the bank’s view it’s a decision whether cutting the price makes financial sense. My guess is that they want to bump up existing buyers to more expensive units in order to cut the price on the lower priced units further. But that’s a guess.
TOW
Walter, Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.
DowntownMakeoverDude
lol alright let’s get some things straight.
1. I am not ‘infatuated’ with Fernando or L3 OR the Montage, although I do think the project is really nice, I just want downtown to work. I don’t care how the Montage gets filled with people, I just want people downtown. We all agree that’s an essential key for redevelopment to work right?
2. Thus far, I get all my information from the many buyers that email me. It was the BUYERS, not Fernando, that told me the contract is rock solid, because just like Mike Mac, I specifically asked the buyers this. I was curious. And I could have sworn Mike Mac also had an attorney friend review the contract, or review some kind of documents form the Montage. There’s always a chance the people emailing me arent really buyers, just like there’s a chance people on here claiming to be buyers aren’t really buyers. I unfortunately haven’t been in contact with anyone at L3 since this went down, except for the broker Cory who emailed me asking me if I would post an ad on my site for real estate agents. I am patiently waiting for a promised interview with Fernando next week. However, that’s all the info I have to go on for now since no one at L3 is talking.
Corina
I have to chuckle at the notion that the Montage is having a hard time getting realtors to peddle units, to the extent that Dude has to send out a special post on his blog to attract potential realtors for the Montage. Accoding to Guy, there are 2,888 active realtors in Washoe County at this time. What’s the implication here? That the market is so hopping now that the Montage can’t find 3 out of 2,888?
The hype just never stops, does it?
DowntownMakeoverDude
I posted that because they asked me to. Since thousands of real estate agents read my site, it seemed like a natural place to find one so I agreed to post it.
I am taking a few steps back from the Montage project until I actually hear from them. There IS life beyond the Montage. The buyer speculation is out of control, and who knows who really is a buyer and who is just feeding us crap. Unless a buyer can prove they are really a buyer, I’m not buying anyone’s claims or stories without proof anymore.
DownButNotOut
To many above posters;
There seems to be a lot of distrust of buyers comments; I am a buyer,put my deposit in in 2006, and am still planning to buy. Like many, I’ve been up and down in real estate ventures the last 3 years. I still believe in the Montage and the Corus/discounted price offered. That being said, I didn’t the whole time, therefore some of my previous comments.
My wife and I have looked at everything that fits this parameter for a 2nd home in the City/Lake Tahoe Area we like to come to about 7-10 days a month,and this is still the best value for us.
I realize if you don’t come from my background,
there will always be analysis. But this is my buyers background. Everything I’ve read here at this site so far seems actually accurate. My condo was discounted 34.7% to be exact. I had my attorney look at the contract and he stated unless I could apply more pressure (i.e.more in the line of class action or at least a bunch of us)there wasn’t much chance of getting my deposit back.
I’m still waiting for written confirmation of my price, for detailed financing that is supposed to come available, and from what I’ve been told serious discounts for closing in a timely manner and paying cash (which I hope means financing from other than Corus). When it comes to me I’ll post it here.
That’s about it from buyers standpoint. I have a non-refundable deposit so patience has to be the key, right?
Lastly, no matter how this building gets filled, it will be the best thing downtown Reno will see. So relax about ‘I haven’t heard the real story yet’ This is mine, but it’s still unfolding.
DowntownMakeoverDude
Sounds great Down and Out! We’ll be nearby-neighbors soon then. My buyer comment wasn’t really directed toward you or anyone on this blog, it was directed toward the large amount of emails I received from ‘buyers’. A lot of the buyers I know personally, I met them at various Montage parties and get-togethers…but since this madness started. I’ve received over 50 emails from people claiming to be buyers, and I just know some of them aren’t. Yet at the same time Mike Mac has had a heck of a time trying to get buyers to speak, which makes me further think a lot of the ‘free-speaking’ people emailing me arent really buyers. For example, giving me fake condo numbers when I corner them on what unit they are moving into, or trying to get me to publish info I know is not true. Why on earth would someone take that much time to lie to me over soemthing as trivial as a condo building, I have no idea. But they did.
stjoe56
Why on earth would someone take that much time to lie to me over something as trivial as a condo building, I have no idea. But they did.
——
Is it called libel and slander. If I publicly criticize the Montage and any of my statements turn out to be inaccurate in the slightest degree, I can be sued. Remember the powers that be at the Montage have yet, to the best of my knowledge, to state anything in writing as to discounts or financing. Everything is based on oral conversations between interested parties. Remember, an oral conversation in not worth the paper it is written on.
Now the non-lawyers among you might state I would never be sued and anyway I would win. Anybody 100% sure here. Anybody willing to pay 100% of my attorney fees. Heck just having a winning defense could bankrupt me.
All I know for sure is that I received a letter, sent certified return receipt requested, in October (?) giving me a 30-day closing notice of December 1, 2008. That day has come and gone.
By the way anybody want to make book on what week the first closing, if any, will take place. My money is on April at the earliest.
At a minimum, the powers that be have to have to (1) send out letters detailing discounts and financing., (2) give the recipients time to digest said letters, (3) process any new paperwork, (4) process any financing applications. (4) arrange closings, (5) etc.
SJ
stjoe56
Someone was nice enough to send me the new starting price sheet on the Montage. Since all the prices are “starting at” prices, I am assuming they are on the seventh floor or slightly higher. There are basically no views until the tenth floor.
Anyways here are the prices per square foot:
Unit – $ per sq foot.
Studios – $265.90
C Units – $244.11
D1 Unit – $254.00
D Units – $272.13
E Units – $307.00
F Units – $296.28
G Units – $292.00
Now I live near Caughlin Ranch in an 1800 square foot house in a very nice subdivision which is less than 10 years old. Dividing the square footage by Zillow’s estimated value is $192 a square foot. You can buy nice house in Reno for $150-$175 a square foot. I know the Montage is a nice life style, but why would someone pay nearly the double the dollar average per square foot.
Don’t forget with the Montage, there will be monthly HOA fees. Maybe – $400 – $500 a unit for a middle size unit.
SJ
montagebuyer
If anyone is interested, the full price sheet is posted on my site.
Evil Twin
In a highrise condo, you are “buying” a lot more than just the square footage of your unit. You are also buying a prorated share of the common areas – lobbies, corridors, mechanical spaces, management and maintenance offices, clubhouse and exercise rooms. This equivalent to the “load factor” in commercial real estate, and I would bet the load factor at the Montage is in the 30-35% range. Plus you are buying your parking space and your prorated share of the parking garage circulation, about 350 SF per space. So a 1000 net SF unit might be equal to 1700 gross SF.
The Montage is all shiny and new. All the standard finishes and appliances are high end, so comparing it on a $/SF basis to a 10 year old stick-built developer house is problematic. You ABSOLUTELY could not duplicate the Montage units for $300/SF (new highrise condos in the City are in the $1000/SF range, so come on over all you rich Californians! They aren’t building any more casino hotels to convert). That’s why the Arterra, Wingfield, and Waterfront projects all stalled out.
HOA dues of $4-500 monthly equals about $80,000 in buying power in this market. Worth it? I pay $220 a month just for the yard boys.
For what it is, I think the Montage is pretty fairly priced now, if you value the “what it is”. Could Corus kneecap the buyers with reductions and repositioning in the future? Sure. So I’m torn – you can buy a unit at the Montage well below replacement value right now. But are replacement value and market value totally disconnected?
DownButNotOut
ET – Good summary. One thing that was left out was location, I’ll be able to walk to the ballgames as well as a lot of other cool places. Since I was up last week, my wife and I walked to; the Bighorns game Friday (great game!) West St market (hung out at the wine bar) dinner at Harrah’s NY Eve, the Ice show at the Eldorado, another dinner at Wild River Grill (great) and didn’t have time to get to Amendment 21 (or any of 20 other fabulous places). Try that from Caughlin Rd. Might be a problem.
That’s what I’m paying for. To me it’s worth it. It doesn’t need to be worth it for everyone, although I hope the place sells out obviously.